Civilization and Transcendence

[Kalpana.v]

His Divine Grace
A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupāda
Replies to a Questionnaire
From Bhavan's Journal
June 28, 1976

CAT 1: Religion with No Conception of God?









Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, this questionnaire was sent to you by Bhavan's Journal, a cultural and religious magazine in Bombay. They are questioning various religious and spiritual leaders, trying to get the answers to some of the important questions that are perplexing people today. So there's a list of questions, and the first is this: "Is the influence of religion over the masses on the wane?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: Yes. This is predicted in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [12.2.1]:

tataś cānu-dinaṁ dharmaḥ
satyaṁ śaucaṁ kṣamā dayā
kālena balinā rājan
naṅkṣyaty āyur balaṁ smṛtiḥ

"In Kali-yuga, this age of quarrel and hypocrisy, there shall be a waning of these qualities: religiosity, truthfulness, cleanliness, tolerance, memory, bodily strength, duration of life, and mercy." These are the human assets—qualities which make a human being distinct from the animals. But these things will decline. There will be almost no mercy, there will be almost no truthfulness, memory will be shortened, duration of life shortened. Similarly, religion will practically vanish. So that means gradually human beings will descend to the platform of animals.

Especially when there is no religion, human beings are simply animals. This any common man can distinguish—that a dog does not understand what religion is. The dog is also a living being, but he's not interested in what is being discussed here about Bhagavad-gītā or Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam. That is the distinction between man and dog: the animal is not interested. So when human beings are becoming uninterested in religion, then they're becoming animals.

And how can there be happiness or peace in animal society? The big leaders want to keep the citizenry as animals, and at the same time they are striving to make a United Nations. How is it possible? United Animals? Is it possible? Society for United Animals. [Laughter.] In the science of logic it is said, "Man is a rational animal." So when rationality is missing, one becomes simply an animal. What is the possibility of being a human being?

In human society, whether you are a Christian or a Muhammadan or a Hindu or a Buddhist, it doesn't matter. But there must be some system of religion—that is human society. And human society without religion—animal society. This is the plain fact. Why are people unhappy now? Because they are neglecting religion.

One gentleman has written me that Marx said, "Religion is the opium of the people." That means the Communists are very adamant against God consciousness because they think that religion has spoiled the whole social atmosphere. Religion might have been misused, but that does not mean that religion should be avoided. Real religion should be taken. Simply because religion has not been properly executed by the so-called priests, that does not mean religion should be rejected. If my eye is giving me some kind of trouble on account of a cataract, that doesn't mean my eye should be plucked out. The cataract should be removed. So that is the idea of the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement—to remove the cataract from people's religious vision.

Generally, modern so-called religious leaders have no conception of God, and yet they are preaching religion. What good is that religion? People are simply being misled. Real religion means God's order: dharmaṁ tu sākṣād bhagavat-praṇītam [SB 6.3.19]. If your religion has no conception of God, where is the question of religion? Still, without any conception of God, they are professing some religion. How long will it go on artificially? It will deteriorate. That ignorance about God has resulted in the present condition.

Religion means the order of God, just as law means the order of the state. Now, if in your social system there is no state, where is the question of the state's order? You will simply manufacture your own order. Today that is going on in the field of religion: there is no conception of God and therefore no following of God's order.

But we devotees of Kṛṣṇa have a clear conception of God. Here is God: Kṛṣṇa. And He's giving orders. We accept those orders. So it is clear religion. But if there is no conception of God, no order of God, then where is the question of religion? Ask someone in some other religious system what their conception of the form of God is. Can anyone tell clearly? Nobody can say. But we shall immediately say,

veṇuṁ kvaṇantam aravinda-dalāyatākṣaṁ
barhāvataṁsam asitāmbudha-sundarāṅgam
kandarpa-koṭi-kamanīya-viśeṣa-śobhaṁ
govindam ādi-puruṣaṁ tam ahaṁ bhajāmi

"I worship Govinda, the primeval Lord, who is adept at playing on His flute, whose eyes are like petals of a blooming lotus, whose head is bedecked with a peacock's feather, whose figure of beauty is tinged with the hue of blue clouds, and whose unique loveliness charms millions of Cupids." [Brahma-saṁhitā 5.30]

Immediately, description—"Here is God." Then there is religion. And if there is no conception of God, where is the question of religion? Bogus. That is why religiosity and the other noble human qualities are declining. People have no conception of God, and therefore there is no understanding of religion. As a result, the whole human civilization is declining. And because it is declining, human beings are becoming more and more like animals.

[Kalpana.v]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda? "What is the role of rituals in religion? Are they to be discouraged, as is being advocated by some reformists, or are they to be encouraged? If so, in what form?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: A ritual is a practice based on tapasya, or austerity. Generally, unless one undergoes the ritualistic ceremonies for purification, he remains unclean. But in this age, because it is practically impossible to induce people to take up all these ritualistic processes, both the scripture and Caitanya Mahāprabhu recommend, "Chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra." This is the special advantage of this age—that by constant chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra, one automatically becomes purified.

In His Śikṣāṣṭaka, Lord Caitanya describes the progressive benefits of chanting Hare Kṛṣṇa. First, ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]. The beginning is cleansing the heart, because we are impure on account of dirty things within our heart, accumulated lifetime after lifetime in the animalistic way of life. So everything—advancement of spiritual life, culture, tapasya—is meant to cleanse the heart. And in this process of chanting the mahā-mantra, the first installment of benefit is the cleansing of the heart. Ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam.

And when the heart is cleansed, then a person becomes eligible for being freed from the clutches of māyā, or the materialistic way of life. He understands that he is not this body—that he's a spirit soul, and that his business is therefore different from merely material concerns. He thinks, "Now I am engaged only in seeking these bodily comforts of life. These are not at all essential, because my body will change. Today, since I am in an American body, I think I have so many duties as an American man. Tomorrow I may be in an American dog body, and immediately my duty would change. So I can understand that these bodily concerns are not my real business. My real business is how to elevate myself—as a spirit soul—to the spiritual world, back to home, back to Godhead."

In this way the person who chants Hare Kṛṣṇa purifies his consciousness. Then his materialistic activity is stopped. He knows, "This is simply a waste of time. I must act spiritually." That is knowledge, which comes from cleansing the heart (ceto-darpaṇa-mārjanam [Cc. Antya 20.12]). The illusion of wrongly working on the basis of the bodily concept of life is overcome simply by the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. This is the first installment of benefit from chanting.

And then there is bhava-mahā-dāvāgni-nirvāpaṇam: the process of stopping the blazing fire of material existence. Next, śreyaḥ-kairava-candrikā-vitaraṇam: his life becomes completely auspicious; and vidyā-vadhū-jīvanam: he becomes filled with transcendental knowledge. The next benefit is ānandāmbudhi-vardanam: the ocean of transcendental bliss increases; and pūrṇāmṛtāsvādanam: he tastes the nectar of Kṛṣṇa consciousness at every step of life. In other words, his life becomes totally blissful. Finally, sarvātma-snapanaṁ paraṁ vijāyate śrī-kṛṣṇa-saṅkīrtanam: all glories to this saṅkīrtana movement, the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra!

So this saṅkīrtana movement is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's gift, and by taking up this chanting one attains kevala-bhakti, unalloyed devotion to the Lord. All the benefits of practicing austerities, penances, mystic yoga, and so on will be totally achieved simply by the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mantra. This is stated in the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam [6.1.15]:

kecit kevalayā bhaktyā
vāsudeva-parāyaṇāḥ
aghaṁ dhunvanti kārtsnyena
nīhāram iva bhāskaraḥ

Just as when the sun rises the all-pervading fog immediately disappears, so in this Kali-yuga, by the process of bhakti-yoga—especially by chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra—all one's sins are eradicated and one becomes fully reformed. In other words, one comes to the spiritual platform, and that is success in life.

[Kalpana.v]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the next question somewhat echoes the previous one: "There are various saṁskāras, or purificatory ceremonies, prescribed for every civilized person, from birth to death. Many of these saṁskāras are not being observed today. Should they be revived?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The real aim of saṁskāras is to bring a rascal to the platform of knowledge. Janmanā jāyate śūdraḥ: by birth, everyone is the same—śūdra. In other words, one is without any knowledge. So the purpose of saṁskāras is to gradually bring a person who has no knowledge of spiritual life to the spiritual platform. As it is said, saṁskārād bhaved dvijaḥ: by the purificatory processes, one attains spiritual rebirth. That is essential.

Human life is the opportunity for understanding what one is and what the aim of one's life is. The aim of life is to go back home, back to Godhead. After all, we are part and parcel of God. Somehow or other, we are now in this material existence. So the real aim of life is to return to the spiritual world, where there is no struggle for existence—blissful, happy life. we want unending blissful life, but it is not possible in the material world That happiness is in the spiritual world. So our aim should be to go there, and every human being should be given the chance. That is real education. That is called saṁskāra, the process of purification.

Now, altogether there are daśa-vidha-saṁskārah, ten kinds of purificatory processes. So, in this age it is very difficult to follow them. but if one chants the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra without any offense, under the guidance of a spiritual master, all these saṁskāras automatically become fulfilled, and one returns to his original, spiritual position.

Ahaṁ brahmāsmi—"I am a spirit soul." So, we are Brahman, spirit, and Kṛṣṇa is Param Brahman, the Supreme Spirit. As Arjuna said, paraṁ brahma paraṁ dhāma pavitraṁ paramaṁ bhavān: [Bg. 10.12] "You are the Supreme Spirit, the ultimate abode, the purest, the Absolute Truth." Kṛṣṇa is Brahman, or spirit, and I am also Brahman, but He's the Supreme Brahman, while I am minute Brahman. So my business is to serve Kṛṣṇa. That is the teaching of Lord Caitanya: jīvera 'svarūpa' haya kṛṣṇera 'nitya-dāsa' [Cc. Madhya 20.108]—"The real identity of the living being is that he is the eternal servant of Kṛṣṇa." So if one engages himself in his original, spiritual business, acting as the servant of Kṛṣṇa, then all processes of purification and reformation are fulfilled.

And that advantage of re-engagement in our original, spiritual business is given freely in this age: kīrtanād eva kṛṣṇasya mukta-saṅgaḥ paraṁ vrajet [SB 12.3.51]—"Simply by chanting the Lord's holy name, one achieves spiritual liberation." The reformatory processes, or saṁskāras, are meant for purifying a person so that he becomes mukta-saṅgaḥ, liberated from all the bad association of material existence and eligible to go back home, back to Godhead. So this is the special advantage of chanting the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra.

The question was, "Should purificatory processes be revived?" They should be revived as far as necessary, but all of them cannot be revived in this age. So people should take to the chanting of the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra. Then all reformation will be there, and people will come to the spiritual platform—brahma-bhūtaḥ, the realization of Brahman. Then prasannātmā: they'll be happy. Na śocati na kāṅkṣati: there will be no lamentation or needless hankering. Samaḥ sarveṣu bhūteṣu: they will see everyone on the spiritual platform. And finally, mad-bhaktiṁ labhate param [Bg. 18.54]. In this way they will come to the platform of devotional service, and then their life becomes successful. Is that question answered or not?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Yes. Just one question I have, Śrīla Prabhupāda. You said that the saṁskāras should be revived as far as necessary?

Śrīla Prabhupāda: The essentials. For instance, to make one a brāhmaṇa, these four things are essential: no illicit sex, no meat-eating, no intoxication, no gambling. These essentials must be there; you cannot dispense with them. You must at least avoid sinful activities. Then one can practice Kṛṣṇa consciousness. As Kṛṣṇa says in the Bhagavad-gītā [7.28]:

yeṣāṁ tv anta-gataṁ pāpaṁ
janānāṁ puṇya-karmaṇām
te dvandva-moha-nirmuktā
bhajante māṁ dṛḍha-vratāḥ

"Persons who have acted piously in previous lives and in this life and whose sinful actions are completely eradicated are freed from the dualities of delusion, and they engage themselves in My service with determination."

You cannot become a devotee unless you give up sinful activity. Therefore you have to begin by following these four prohibitions. You have to avoid sinful activities like illicit sex, meat-eating, gambling, and intoxication, including tobacco, coffee, and tea. Then you'll gradually become completely sinless. On one side you have to follow restrictions, and on the other side you have to engage yourself in devotional service. To engage oneself in devotional service under the order of the spiritual master and the śāstra is the way to remain on the transcendental platform.

The transcendental platform means there is no sinful activity. It is above any question of "sinful." "Pious" and "sinful" activities are there only as long as you are on the material platform. "Good" and "bad," "pious" and "sinful"—these are all considerations on the material platform. But when you are on the transcendental platform, you are automatically without sin. Kṛṣṇa confirms this in Bhagavad-gītā [14.26]:

māṁ ca yo' vyabhicāreṇa
bhakti-yogena sevate
sa guṇān samatītyaitān
brahma-bhūyāya kalpate

The life of vice and the life of piety are within this material world, but when one is spiritually engaged, he is above the material plane, on the spiritual plane.

So the whole thing is that if you chant the Hare Kṛṣṇa mahā-mantra and give up these sinful activities, automatically you become reformed. You come to the spiritual platform. And in this way your life will become successful.


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[Kalpana.v]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Next question, Śrīla Prabhupāda. "Do you envision a different role for the Vedic culture in the Western countries, where the influence of other great religions has been felt for centuries?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: No. There is no "different role." God is one. God cannot be two. As Kṛṣṇa states in the Bhagavad-gītā [7.7], mattaḥ parataraṁ nānyat kiñcid asti dhanañjaya: "There is no authority superior to Me." That is God. Now people have to understand that Kṛṣṇa is God. There is no "different role" for the Vedic culture. The role is the same worldwide. Five thousand years ago, Kṛṣṇa said, "I am the supreme authority. There is no authority superior to Me." He is still so. Therefore we are simply attempting to introduce Kṛṣṇa.

Previously nobody attempted to introduce the supreme authority, Kṛṣṇa, all over the world. We are just trying to introduce Kṛṣṇa, following the orders of Śrī Caitanya Mahāprabhu, who appeared five hundred years ago. He is Kṛṣṇa, and He wanted this Kṛṣṇa consciousness to be spread all over the world:

pṛthivīte āche yata nagarādi-grāma
sarvatra pracāra haibe mora nāma
[CB Antya-khaṇḍa 4.126]

"In every town and village throughout the world," said Lord Caitanya, "the chanting of My holy name will be heard." Kṛṣṇa is not just for India. He is for everyone, because He is God. In Bhagavad-gītā He affirms, ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ pitā: [Bg. 14.4] "I am the seed-giving father of all living entities"—not just the living entities in the human society, but also all other living entities, like the aquatics, the insects, the plants, the birds, and the beasts.

Everything is there in the Vedic culture, but this culture of Kṛṣṇa consciousness, which is summarized in Bhagavad-gītā As It Is, had not been preached properly. Everyone had interpreted Bhagavad-gītā in his own way, to satisfy his own whims. We are just trying for the first time to present Bhagavad-gītā as it is, and it is becoming effective. So this is not a "different role" for the Vedic culture. It is the actual role. Nobody had tried for it; therefore Kṛṣṇa had been unknown in the Western countries. But even though we have been attempting to introduce Him for only a few years, still, because it is reality, Kṛṣṇa consciousness is being accepted. So it is not a new role for the Vedic culture. The role is already there—to preach Kṛṣṇa consciousness.

That is Caitanya Mahāprabhu's vision. He says especially to people born in India,

bhārata-bhūmite manuṣya-janma haila yāra
janma sārthaka kari' kara para-upakāra
[Cc. Ādi 9.41]

"Anyone who has taken his birth as a human being in India, Bhāratavarṣa, should make his life successful and work for the upliftment of the whole world." Indians are meant for this business—for the upliftment of the whole world—because all over the world people are unaware of Kṛṣṇa. So anyone who is born in India should attempt to broadcast the message of Bhagavad-gītā and Kṛṣṇa. That is the order of Caitanya Mahāprabhu.

This is not a new role for the Vedic culture. The role is already there. Five hundred years ago, Caitanya Mahāprabhu spoke of it. But all the various swamis and yogis who came here—they never introduced Kṛṣṇa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. Now it is being done, and people are accepting, naturally. This is the Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement.

So if everyone joins—either Indian or non-Indian—in this movement, there will be one religion and there will be peace. Peace will prevail. This is the only way.

bhoktāraṁ yajña-tapasāṁ
sarva-loka-maheśvaram
suhṛdaṁ sarva-bhūtānāṁ
jñātvā māṁ śāntim ṛcchati
[Bg. 5.29]

"A person in full consciousness of Me, knowing Me to be the ultimate beneficiary of all sacrifices and austerities, the Supreme Lord of all planets and demigods, and the benefactor and well-wisher of all living entities, attains peace from the pangs of material miseries." This is the way to attain śānti, peace. Understand Kṛṣṇa—that He is the supreme enjoyer, the supreme proprietor, and the supreme friend of everyone. "Accept Kṛṣṇa as your friend. You'll be happy." This is the message of Kṛṣṇa consciousness.



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[Kalpana.v]

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: Śrīla Prabhupāda, the final question is: "What is your view regarding proselytizing or preaching?"

Śrīla Prabhupāda: We are simply attempting to bring people to the real understanding. Kṛṣṇa says, mamaivāṁśo jīva-bhūtaḥ: [15.7] all living entities are part and parcel of Me. He says, sarva-yoniṣu kaunteya [Bg. 14.4] ... ahaṁ bīja-pradaḥ: "Of all forms of life, I am the seed-giving father." In other words, the natural position is that every living entity—animals, plants, and human beings, including Indians, Americans, Czechs—everyone is part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa.

So our Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is not a process of trying to convince people of some speculative idea. This movement is actually bringing people to their real position—that they're all part and parcel of Kṛṣṇa. It is not artificial proselytizing: "You are Christian; now become a Hindu." It is not like that. This movement is actually bringing people back to their natural position—part and parcel of God.

The effects of artificial proselytizing will not stand. But when one comes to the real understanding of his position, then that will continue. This Kṛṣṇa consciousness movement is that real understanding—bringing everyone back to his original position. At the present moment everyone is in a diseased condition: people are thinking they are something other than servants of Kṛṣṇa. Now this movement is trying to bring everyone to the position of recognizing that they are eternal servants of Kṛṣṇa.

This movement is not some kind of rubber-stamp proselytizing—"You were Christian; now you are Hindu." After all, if one does not know what his position is, what benefit will he derive by simply being stamped "Hindu"?

Puṣṭa Kṛṣṇa: No benefit. He'll still be in ignorance of his real, spiritual identity.

Śrīla Prabhupāda: If you keep someone on the ignorant platform, then what is the benefit of making a Christian or a Muslim into a Hindu? No, artificially changing someone into a Hindu will not help. One must know the philosophy of life. One must know what God is. One must learn how to love God. That is real life.